Starpolish Interview

StarPolish Interview PART 1
(From August 2001)

Watch video of this interview at Starpolish.com

Before Britney ever bared her belly or the Backstreet Boys set to harmonizing, Hanson ruled the teen-pop roost. Emerging as an Anglo Jackson Five or a cooler Osmond Brothers in the mid-'90s, the three photogenic Hanson brothers blew out of Tulsa, Oklahoma to take the world of pop by storm. Powered by radio-friendly songs such as "MMMBop" and "Where's the Love" that melded slick pop with soulful, ebullient harmonies and infectious hip-hop beats, the group's 1997 debut album, Middle of Nowhere, rocketed to the top of the charts. At the time of the album's release, Isaac Hanson (guitar, vocals) was just 16, Taylor (lead vocal, keyboards) was 13, and Zac (drums) was just 11.

Despite their ages, Hanson weren't overnight sensations. Prior to being signed, the band Hanson had already put in five years trying to break into the business, gigging around Tulsa and releasing two indie albums while improving their instrumental prowess and learning to write songs. Mercury Records finally signed the brothers on the strength of "MMMBop," and teamed them with slick producers, such as the Dust Brothers and Steve Lironi, and proven songwriters, such as Desmond Child and Barry Mann & Cynthia Weil. "MMMBop" debuted at No.13 in the U.S. charts, and backed by strong radio airplay and an MTV video, Hanson - and Middle of Nowhere - became a runaway success.

Hanson's follow-up album, 2000's This Time Around, demonstrated the group's growing maturity, as they wrote all the songs on the album and ultimately co-produced it along with Livoni. The album also featured special guest artists such as Blues Traveler's John Popper, Beck scratch-master DJ Swamp and teenage guitar wiz Jonny Lang, which some saw as an effort by Hanson to move behind the teen-idol thing and establish themselves as more legitimate rock artists. Ric Ocasek, originally hired to produce the record, was fired after three tracks were completed, leaving the production chores to Livoni, Mark Hudson and Hanson. Despite the strong roster of songs, cool guests and first-class production, This Time Around didn't achieve anywhere near the commercial success of the group's debut album.

That makes the next Hanson album a very critical one for the brothers and their label, Island Def Jam (Mercury was subsumed within the Island Def Jam Music Group just prior to the second album). Getting the album delivered, however, has been somewhat problematic. The yet-untitled album was originally scheduled for a fall 2001 release, but there's still no firm date as to when the album will be completed and released. There have been numerous reports about contributors, ranging from producers such as Bob Marlette (Tracy Chapman, Marilyn Manson) and Livoni (and maybe even Ocasek or Glenn Ballard), to engineers such as Counting Crows/Pretender knob-twister Steve Churchyard. Its' also been reported that Hanson has been working with other songwriters and musicians, including such as Carol King, Matthew Sweet, Ed Robertson (Barenaked Ladies), Donny Brown (Verve Pipe) and Gregg Alexander (ex-New Radicals).

If the new album is hanging heavy on Hanson's mind, you couldn't tell from their recent sit-down interview with StarPolish editorial director James K. Willcox at Island Def Jam's New York offices. The Hanson brothers were smart, informed about the business and its history, and very funny. In this the first segment of this two-part interview, Hanson addresses the Internet and Napster, retaining the rights to their masters, and the plusses and minuses or working within the major-label system.

Using the Internet

ZAC: We try and use the Internet as much as possible, just because it's an easy way to communicate with masses of people instantly, essentially. From websites - we have an ISP - the struggle is always doing as much as you want with it because there's so much stuff that we always want to do. But it's hard to sit down and do everything you want to do. Or maybe the person who's updating the site for you is just not getting everything you want done. And I guess that's always the struggle. But I think the Internet has been a huge tool.

TAYLOR: Early on, when the first record came out, I think we were one of the first bands to really start to embrace the web as a medium, and we said we got to do this site, and we started really getting into the site. And that was really before anyone was giving the Internet much respect as a tool. And now, record companies are using it as a promotional tool, or they survey with it...or at least they're trying to. They at least recognize that's its supposed to do something - not that they know how to use it, but they at least see that it's effective in some way. And I think most importantly, like we were talking [about] earlier, it's the fans communication, inside itself. They get to know each other, they find things out, they trade stories and information, and I think it's kind of self-perpetuating - they turn the wheels themselves. And then you get to be part it - you get to go. "This is where we're going to be, or this is when we'll do a chat, here's the video and here are the pictures and here's the music," but then they go and take that, and go, "Did you hear about that?" It's not like sending someone a letter in the mail -- it keeps going, goes on to the next person -- it's self-perpetuating.

ZAC: It's not just a letter... it's a chain letter... (everyone laughs)

ISAAC: I think that I've deleted every chain letter I've ever gotten...

ZAC: You deleted all my letters! (everyone laughs)

Internet Influence

ZAC: It's happening -- it's just not happening the way that everyone thinks it's going to happen. Everyone went, "this is going to be the next big thing... (motions a big take-off, then a dive, simulates the sound of a crash).

TAYLOR: Everyone jumped to conclusions so quickly...

ISAAC: It's like Amazon.com or something, where everyone is paying $100 a share, or $150 a share...

TAYLOR: For a company that doesn't make any money...

ISAAC: Exactly... on the prospect that it might. It's just an inflated, confused view of the Internet. But the reality is that does have the possibilities of that. But I think we're still several tears away from reaching that point where it can do all the things its capable of doing.

ZAC: It really is a new form of communication. Everyone jumped on it ... and then when it didn't expand to its full potential - which it won't for years, probably --every one jumped off. So I think that it's kind of like, though the years it's going to become more and more...I'm not sure if it ever will be the equivalent of a label...

ISAAC: Look, there are always going to be people finding ways to steal money from artists "(laughter) That is their job.

Napster

TAYLOR: We're technically... we're "on the record" against Napster...

ISAAC: "The "trading" of music...

ZAC: "We're sharing... sharing" with...

ISAAC: We're sharing with millions of people - we have millions of "close friends!"

TAYLOR: It's hard because, personally, I see our song...I think Napster could have been a really cool thing, a really amazing thing to be able to go on the Internet and find almost anything you want, and that's really cool. In fact, that should be the future of the Internet, of being able to go and find this - it's so cool for some 17-year-old kid who has no idea about Led Zeppelin to be able to find everything they've ever done. And there should be a small fee you pay to get that ...

ISAAC: The artist is being compromised...

TAYLOR: It's just like buying a chair - someone manufactured it, paid for the leather, whatever, and they manufactured the chair and you have to go pay something for it, or the chair won't exist anymore because no one is being paid money to make it. You can't walk into Pottery Barn and say, "I like those plates (simulates them under his shirt). It's a bummer that it's not like all those college students who lime, "Oh, this sucks, I can't get all these CDs," Well, duh, you have 300 MP3s and that band has sold 1,000 records.

So I think it's going to change, but no one knows how it's going to happen yet, 'cause everyone's so anxious about making money on the Internet and about how fast it's going to happen. It's going to happen, it's going to evolve, it's already changed the music industry, but there's always going to be record companies, there will always be the record stores, because people do buy things. It's like you're going to order everything in life from the Internet...

ZAC: Yeah? I just bought this shirt on the Internet... (laughs)

TAYLOR: It's a social experience. It's just like how there's a cool area in New York where people go shop. They could buy a lot of that stuff on the Internet somewhere - I'm sure there's a store that manufactures tweedy bags, but they want to go down to SOHO and look around, and grab a hot dog on the way, and sit down and look at the bag...

ISAAC: And see the actual size, and see how it feels to hold the tweedy bag.

TAYLOR: Because that happens. The Internet is such an amazing medium, but it's not going to take over....

ISAAC: Here's the other thing about MP3s - they sound like cassettes. No offense, I know everybody's raving about them, but MP3s do not sound as good as CD quality, and the bass, the bass is not even there.

Writers vs. Publishers

ISAAC: And for those out there for who may or may not know - there was a whole big thing with the RIAA and congress, where there was a change in the law - the work-for-hire thing. We tried to go and testify, but we were in Europe and couldn't make it. But basically the work-for-hire law thing where that the masters of your recordings never ever revert back to you - they're solely owned by the record company. Frankly, 35 years is a really frickin' very long time. And most of those artists will never see the masters revert to them.

ZAC: Most of them will be dead.

ISAAC: We're one of the few artists that will actually see their masters come back to us.

TAYLOR: While we're still making our career.

ISAAC: OK, I'll be like 50 or 60 years old and I may get my masters back.

Artists Represent Themselves

ISAAC: Actually, I don't think there's anyone that represents the artists, except the artists themselves. Truly. And I guess that's the idea with StarPolish, the fact that you're informing the artists of the fact that there isn't anyone looking out for your interests except for you. And maybe a good attorney; hopefully you have one that you trust. And most of the time it's hard to get one, because most of the time they're expensive, and most artists don't have enough money to get a good attorney.

Record Labels

ZAC: The problem with what has been said is there's good and bad things about labels, obviously. The bad thing is, yeah, they pay for your record and then you pay them aback, and then they... It is ironic how much the artists does end up working back from a label, but the artist would never get out there if it weren't for the label. If the label didn't put up the money to let them make the record, and help them promote it, then they really couldn't do it. So it's really a double-edged sword, as with most things. You've got to love the labels because they're keeping you alive a lot of the time, and you've got to hate the label because they're stealing from you

TAYLOR: There are only a few bands in history who have done it without a label; the Grateful Dead is one of them. And touring bands, there are a few gargantuan ones. But they were sort of like that's not going to happen, that's a very rare...

ZAC: In a lot of those cases they're also not broad-stream music. The Grateful Dead is a jam band...

ISAAC: And no offense... there's a lot of drugs that go along with that! (laughs)

ZAC: And they found that they had a thing that a lot of people connected with... and a lot of people doing drugs.

ISAAC: (pretending he's stoned) "Awesome! Jerry Garcia rocks! (laughs)

ZAC: They weren't a mainstream band; they couldn't be played on the radio...

STARPOLISH: But every album of theirs went gold - but over 20 years. They sold and sold and sold...

TAYLOR: And they also made $90 million a year in their biggest touring year - they were one of the biggest touring acts. Ninety million dollars a year in touring.

STARPOLISH: And they encouraged the taping of their music.

ZAC: And actually, I'm kind of for that, really, the recording of live stuff. I think that's cool. I actually wish that Napster existed purely for the trading of live tapes. Because I think that's kind of cool, because another...it's just a different medium.

ZAC: What it is, is, there's gonna be some compromise. Either people have to stop making records, or not depend on records as much, bands will be forced to do more touring and be better bands live - something's gonna happen. Or the Internet will be banned from the face of the planet. Something will happen - or something won't happen, I guess.

TAYLOR: That's pretty definitive. (all laugh)

ZAC: Something's going to happen that will change it.

Producers

TAYLOR: It's funny because I don't think a lot of people understand that we have always played a huge role in the production of our records. We co-produced the last three records that we've done. And basically all our producer is...we just think of it as another member of the band. The problem with being in the band and producing the record is, sometimes you don't always have the best perspective on it. Sometimes you think, "Oh, that's the best part," and it's well, "That shouldn't go on for that long; you need to cut it down." And it's just the idea of a production perspective - "do this with it," or "put this sound on it." And then there is, what's the personality of the person, what their background is, if you don't kill each other in the studio, and then their expertise technically, and the sound of it. And you just combine all those things with the timing of people's schedules, and "OK, can you even do this?" So the producer is just another person, and if that person comes from a background of doing death-metal, then they're probably going to say, "Let's do the guitar like this (simulates heavy death-metal guitar riffs)."

ISAAC: The irony of it is, the song we just did and put on this Princess Diary soundtrack...

TAYLOR: We did it with a producer who's done Saliva, three or four Alice Cooper records, all hard-core stuff.

STARPOLISH: When it starts, it sounding almost a little country:

TAYLOR: It kinda does have that flavor - we're like, "Man, it has this Southern rock kind of like...

ISAAC: It has mandolin on it, acoustic guitar. The thing about us is, we're very eclectic; we end up with a lot of songs that have very different styles, very different stylistically. If you listen to a record, and you'll get, "OK, that song's very 1960it, it. That song's is very 1965, that song's very Black Crowes, and you get these very definitive things that come out of it. Actually, it's both a good thing and a bad thing. On the one hand it's good because it makes it interesting for the listener, but on the other hand...

TAYLOR: Sometimes you have to go, "We have to go and give it some continuity...how do we do R&B, and some really rocking thing, and really make it feel like it makes sense.

ISAAC: And that's sometimes where the producer plays a role in it, to help smooth out the edges.

This is Part I of a two-part interview - so stay tuned!

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